Just thinking out loud...
Perception creates reality.
What we see is what we believe.
But the reality we see is produced, man-made, according to the dominant ideology, so it is artificial. Fake.
The societies we live in are as real as reality TV.
If I was watching this on television, I would switch off.
Is that the time? I should analyse this further but the reality is that I have to rush out to buy my Team GB Olympics souvenir scarf.
I feel a distant JB wind coming...
ReplyDeleteThe world is your idea, yes. But it depends whether you mean by that that you see it as a pre-existing something that you interpret according to your idea, or whether you see that your idea that it already is is your idea. In other words, there is no world apart from your idea. First it seems we realise that all we take the world to be is a product of conditioning, but then if we go further even the idea that there is a world at all doesn't appear to have any basis but conditioning. But if there is no world, where did that conditioning come from? Obviously the idea that there is a world and the conditioning it contains to generate that idea came upon the actual face of the quiescent reality ('the Absolute') all as one spontaneously. Thus, none of it being real, there is no problem with any of it. It still remains the Absolute. Did you get that?
ReplyDeleteHmm...
ReplyDeleteWell, my point was more that we live in a manufactured culture, more and more based on market values, less and less based on true meaning.
For me, it is real, but a fake real.
I think you are arguing the 'real' aspect, as in 'is the world real?', which I answer as yes but doesn't mean I can't see your argument.
'Is the world real?' is a question ultimately dependent upon what you regard as 'the world'. You've already said that you regard what might be called the consensus-reality world as fake so the question then is what is the world that is left? Eventually we'll get down to protons, neutrons, and electrons, and from there to quarks, bosons, and dark energy. Once you're there, where do 'people' and 'jobs' and 'reality TV' fit in? And, of course, quarks, bosons, and dark energy are just placeholders for some other projection. So is the world real? Or is what's projecting the world real? Obviously, the latter. So, is the latter the world? No, the world is it.
ReplyDeleteLiving in a manufactured culture is a matter of degree in any case and you can't say anything about apparent others living in it you can only talk about the degree to which you live in it. And then is the culture that manufactured the manufactured culture any truer? Or is it just nostalgia for a seemingly 'purer' era, the naive fifties, the liberated sixties, etc. Obviously the preceding generation gives rise to the next one, 'manufacturing' the culture you now witness. So clearly now cannot be said to be more manufactured than any previous culture, assuming you can even define boundary lines between distinct cultures, because it is the falsity of one generation that gave rise to the falsity of the next, it just appears to be getting more sophisticated and sinister, but the seed was from way back. In a personal lifespan you can take it all the way back to when you popped your head out of the womb, product of your parents' passion or accident, products of their fake culture and their parents' fake culture, etc. So the bottom line would appear to be, wouldn't you say, that's it's all fake. Could something that's fake be more or less fake than something else that's also fake?
As for 'it is real, but a fake real', that's fake, yes? So basically you're agreeing that your apparent reality is fake. So, back to square one, what's the real real? Well it's obviously what makes the fake fake.
I think Nature is real.
ReplyDeleteNature too is an illusion, but it's easier to see reality there.
ReplyDelete